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[Drakilian]

Or learn them in-game.

Potence/Animalism has good combos, I think.

[Not Aman]

Reference desk didn't how anything.

[Forge]

animalism and potence has good ones, I dumped on those though to be all sneaky... Edit: I couldnt actually find any, I know protean and animalism has them.

Is it bad I always want to entirely change my char concept...

[Drakilian]

Reference desk didn't how anything.

That;s why you use the awesome PDF list I have you all XD

[Daedalus]

What, there is a pdf for combo disciplines? i'd like to see that!

[Drakilian]

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-dxc3vZPAwubGlzaENxbEVGNEdnV2FLVVNRNmJzbUR2emw4/edit

[Sethaniel]

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-dxc3vZPAwubGlzaENxbEVGNEdnV2FLVVNRNmJzbUR2emw4/edit

It's not an authorized white wolf supplement- it's a homebrewed guide meant for use in live-action vampire games. 

We should go with this as the official document, though?
It might be helpful if you'd make a thread with the links to which sites we're okay to take merits/weapons/armor etc from.  Or is it a case-by-case basis, like "if I find this cool flaw, I can take it as long as you say so"?

(I'm asking because sometimes when I'm looking for info online, there's sites with contradictory rules.  It's hard to tell if one of them is the "official" rules, or if both of them are site-specific made-up changes to disciplines/rules.  Or sites that list merits/flaws that aren't on subnet.  It's often unclear if those are from a supplement or revision that hasn't made it to subnet yet, or if they're the site owner's inventions.)

[Forge]

It can be tricky, I generally use sub-net, then search elsewhere for new things. then there is a period of back checking to see if it contradicts anything then finally posting it here to ask if it is ok.

On that PDF it mentions an Obs/Animalism combo that I can't find anywhere... "wolf somthing somthing"

[Sethaniel]

Like, apparently I shouldn't have let Adam have Tenebrous Veil, since it's actually "only known by anarchs, who will only teach it to other anarchs."

Wolf's Lament is in either Libellus Sanguinis vol 4, where it costs 7 exp, or Players Guide to the Low Clans, where it says it costs 14.

Wolf’s Lament (Dark Ages)
Animalism 1, Obfuscate 2
Description: In ancient times, the wolf’s howl echoed across the forests and mountains, communicating with its far-flung brethren. The Nosferatu and Gangrel living among the wilds of northern Europe learned how to do the same, resulting in Wolf’s Lament. This gift enables the vampire to howl a message out into the open, where it carries for miles. Additionally, any wolf hearing the wail supports it using its own voice. If done properly, a chain of wolves can sustain the lament across dozens and even hundreds of miles.

Anyone listening merely hears an eerie keening that pierces the air and settles across the land. Those with Feral Speech, however, hear a voice carried within the howl. The content is brief, but it imparts emotional imperative and a general missive. It can warn of danger, summon a specific individual, grieve for someone’s death or carry any other quick and simple messages. Wolf’s Lament can vocalize roughly two simple sentences.

System Description: To use this Discipline, the player relates the simple message and the Storyteller judges wheter or not it is too complex (saying it in one breath is a good rull of thumb). The player then rolls Manipulation + Animal Ken (difficulty 6) and the vampire sends out his instructions in a howl; the successes indicate the distance the message travels on the voices of wolves (see below). A failure simply means there are no packs in the area (or they fail to pick up the message), while a botch indicates that the caller attracts unwanted attention.

Successes / Distance
1 success: five miles
2 successes: 10 miles
3 successes: 50 miles
4 successes: 100 miles
5 successes: 250 miles

[Forge]

darn...

So what about this one?

Shadowed strike: Obsfucate 3/Potence 1, 2 or 3

Masters of Obsfucation use this ability to gain a great advantage over their foes by striking while unseen. Usually employed by Assamite or Nosferatu  assassins The character uses mastery of Obsfucate to get close to their intended target, then uses Potence to aid in delivering a critical blow, usually deadly to mortals.

System:
The player must first be concealed by Obsfucate with the intended target having no idea where they currently are, having failed their perception roll. It is up to the GM's discretion as to whether it will be allowed following 'Vanish from the minds eye' as the player will be invisible to the target but the target MAY have gone on guard, discuss with the GM as to whether the targets reaction will block this attack.
The player then must move to within melee range of the target without being detected.
The character delivers a carefully targeted punch, or stab (cannot use any weapon bigger than a dagger or claws, character can use extended fingers to cause lethal instead of bashing damage) into a critical point of the target to cause extra damage.

The player may state an exact target (eg. spine at the base of the skull, windpipe, heart) or can leave the exact target up to the GM. If they do not wish to risk killing the target they may also target a crippling blow to beak limbs etc.

Roll as normal for an un-contested melee/unarmed attack with a difficulty of -2 as the target cannot dodge or block what they cannot know is coming. Damage is calculated as normal for an un-armed/melee strike +2 lethal damage.

The GM then calculates damage to the target and states the result. Should the damage be greater than a mortals health, the GM describes the mortals death from the blow. If the target survives the attack, as some mortals and most supernaturals will, the GM describes the damage along with possible crippling effects to the target (Ie. blinded, broken arm, heavy bleeding etc. staggering the target for a turn is also possible following strikes to the head/brain). Should there only be 1 or maybe two successes the GM can decide that the target moved at the last minute and only takes normal damage with no crippling after effects. A botch means the Character  reveals himself at the last moment and the attack is evaded or blocked.

[Forge]

Also for weapons.

He has strong leather gloves with a metal band over the knuckes, like a knuckle duster. Two metal spikes that protrude a couple of inches out of the knuckles when making a fist. They are thick metal but thin width like stiletto blades, about two inches long. they are design to be able to stab both an opponents eyes out in a single punch or puncture internal organs..

Don't need dagger or sword or anything now. so my point in resources is being used on the leather Armour and spiked gloves.

Specialty for Wits: Combat reflexes. (Initiative is nice for going invisible before being hit)

[Forge]

Strength specializations: Crippling blows (To break things in people and cause them to suffer penalties)
                                : not sure yet

[Drakilian]

It's not an authorized white wolf supplement- it's a homebrewed guide meant for use in live-action vampire games. 

We should go with this as the official document, though?
It might be helpful if you'd make a thread with the links to which sites we're okay to take merits/weapons/armor etc from.  Or is it a case-by-case basis, like "if I find this cool flaw, I can take it as long as you say so"?

(I'm asking because sometimes when I'm looking for info online, there's sites with contradictory rules.  It's hard to tell if one of them is the "official" rules, or if both of them are site-specific made-up changes to disciplines/rules.  Or sites that list merits/flaws that aren't on subnet.  It's often unclear if those are from a supplement or revision that hasn't made it to subnet yet, or if they're the site owner's inventions.)

Yeah, but like, I'm cool with it so we're all good.it adds much-needed variety to vampire powers.

Oh, I know, so much contradiction. But that's because the books contradict each other. There are many, many books. Which is why they mostly just say it's the ST's ruling.

Subnet is incomplete, especially for disciplines.

If you guys get something I don't think makes sense, that I don't like or which will be ultimately useless, I'll just say so.

[Drakilian]

Also for weapons.

He has strong leather gloves with a metal band over the knuckes, like a knuckle duster. Two metal spikes that protrude a couple of inches out of the knuckles when making a fist. They are thick metal but thin width like stiletto blades, about two inches long. they are design to be able to stab both an opponents eyes out in a single punch or puncture internal organs..

Don't need dagger or sword or anything now. so my point in resources is being used on the leather Armour and spiked gloves.

Specialty for Wits: Combat reflexes. (Initiative is nice for going invisible before being hit)

Can't get any armour, but i'd allow the spiked gloves.

[Drakilian]

Like, apparently I shouldn't have let Adam have Tenebrous Veil, since it's actually "only known by anarchs, who will only teach it to other anarchs."

Total crap, there's no way the anarchs keep that secret from everyone else, or that no one else develops the technique (generally I ignore the "only known by" stuff as well, so don't worry about that here).

[Sethaniel]

Total crap, there's no way the anarchs keep that secret from everyone else, or that no one else develops the technique (generally I ignore the "only known by" stuff as well, so don't worry about that here).

What about for merits and flaws, can we take clan-specific ones that aren't from our clan?

[Sethaniel]

Can't get any armour, but i'd allow the spiked gloves.

In general, none of us can have armor?

[Not Aman]

Poor people cant

[Drakilian]

darn...

So what about this one?

Shadowed strike: Obsfucate 3/Potence 1, 2 or 3

Masters of Obsfucation use this ability to gain a great advantage over their foes by striking while unseen. Usually employed by Assamite or Nosferatu  assassins The character uses mastery of Obsfucate to get close to their intended target, then uses Potence to aid in delivering a critical blow, usually deadly to mortals.

System:
The player must first be concealed by Obsfucate with the intended target having no idea where they currently are, having failed their perception roll. It is up to the GM's discretion as to whether it will be allowed following 'Vanish from the minds eye' as the player will be invisible to the target but the target MAY have gone on guard, discuss with the GM as to whether the targets reaction will block this attack.
The player then must move to within melee range of the target without being detected.
The character delivers a carefully targeted punch, or stab (cannot use any weapon bigger than a dagger or claws, character can use extended fingers to cause lethal instead of bashing damage) into a critical point of the target to cause extra damage.

The player may state an exact target (eg. spine at the base of the skull, windpipe, heart) or can leave the exact target up to the GM. If they do not wish to risk killing the target they may also target a crippling blow to beak limbs etc.

Roll as normal for an un-contested melee/unarmed attack with a difficulty of -2 as the target cannot dodge or block what they cannot know is coming. Damage is calculated as normal for an un-armed/melee strike +2 lethal damage.

The GM then calculates damage to the target and states the result. Should the damage be greater than a mortals health, the GM describes the mortals death from the blow. If the target survives the attack, as some mortals and most supernaturals will, the GM describes the damage along with possible crippling effects to the target (Ie. blinded, broken arm, heavy bleeding etc. staggering the target for a turn is also possible following strikes to the head/brain). Should there only be 1 or maybe two successes the GM can decide that the target moved at the last minute and only takes normal damage with no crippling after effects. A botch means the Character  reveals himself at the last moment and the attack is evaded or blocked.

This one feels made up. Mostly because of use of the word GM, which is not used ever by any of the books. They use ST or storyteller.

EDIT: This isn't a combo discipline. After reading the system I am doubly certain this isn't a combo discipline. All of this is possible with the current rules.

[Drakilian]

What about for merits and flaws, can we take clan-specific ones that aren't from our clan?

Depends. Some of the clan-specific ones are based on clan flaws, in which case no, you can't (because only that clan has that unique flaw). But stuff like the Nosferatu wings i'd allow to be taken by anyone (the wings would have a different form as the characters wouldn't be affected by the Nosferatu curse, of course), etc.

[Sethaniel]

Depends. Some of the clan-specific ones are based on clan flaws, in which case no, you can't (because only that clan has that unique flaw). But stuff like the Nosferatu wings i'd allow to be taken by anyone (the wings would have a different form as the characters wouldn't be affected by the Nosferatu curse, of course), etc.

Patagia (4-pt. merit)

Leathery wings fold up into your horrid little body. Picture the gliding wings of a pterodactyl or a flying squirrel. Now visualize them hanging off the twisted skeleton of batlike wings. With the aid of an updraft or a strong wind, you can glide for short distances – rather useful for Nosferatu who skulk along rooftops, don't you think? Storytellers should know that a vampire with this Merit can glide at his normal walking speed.

[Sethaniel]

This one feels made up. Mostly because of use of the word GM, which is not used ever by any of the books. They use ST or storyteller.

EDIT: This isn't a combo discipline. After reading the system I am doubly certain this isn't a combo discipline. All of this is possible with the current rules.

Like, I don't see why any levels of Potence would be necessary to do this.

[Drakilian]

Like, I don't see why any levels of Potence would be necessary to do this.

They aren't, which is why i'm saying it's not a combo discipline XD

You just need Obfuscate and... that's it. There are allowances in the rules that let you do exactly this.

[Forge]

They aren't, which is why i'm saying it's not a combo discipline XD

You just need Obfuscate and... that's it. There are allowances in the rules that let you do exactly this.

Ah awesome. Would 2 points in resources get me leather armor?

I had forgotten to say in the original post but it looks made up cos I made it up due to there being no good combos.

As for the wings allowing long distance gliding if not actual flight, I really wanted them...

[Drakilian]

Yes, it would get you the leather armor.

Then spend the freebies for it. The 7 pt version of that merit gives you actual, legitimate wings that let you fly. There's also a 2 pt merit that makes the wings retractable.

[Forge]

Yes, it would get you the leather armor.

Then spend the freebies for it. The 7 pt version of that merit gives you actual, legitimate wings that let you fly. There's also a 2 pt merit that makes the wings retractable.

Used up all me freebies again, I might drop obs 6 though and get 7 back... constant changes going on right now

[Drakilian]

When you're done, i'll review it.

[Forge]

When you're done, i'll review it.

Ok many changes made, resources now at 2 which says I'm the equivalent of middle class so since he lives most of the time in a cave he can easily afford some nice padded(For being silent) leather armour and his two-spike gloves.

Dropped level Obfuscate since it's awesome but I can buy it later and wanted more fun things to use the freebies on.

Took merit light sleeper and danger sense. They fitted his char better than something like bigger body or purely physical ones and means if danger arrives he can often sense it first and use obfuscate before things get messy rather than after.

Some other minor juggling of backgrounds etc.

[Drakilian]

Not accepting Danger Sense (because a 2pt merit isn't going to be better than a discipline, and because Auspex 1's entire purpose is danger sensing).

Also, and I won't lie, I find Danger senses aggravating. You don't sense danger. You have perception rolls/Auspex for sensing possible danger, there is no single ability that lets you just "know" you're in danger. This would completely negate stealth, which I would despise.

[Daedalus]

I think more of danger sense of having " i got a bad feeeeling about this" which i loved with Atton in kotor.

[Sethaniel]

Not accepting Danger Sense (because a 2pt merit isn't going to be better than a discipline, and because Auspex 1's entire purpose is danger sensing).

Also, and I won't lie, I find Danger senses aggravating. You don't sense danger. You have perception rolls/Auspex for sensing possible danger, there is no single ability that lets you just "know" you're in danger. This would completely negate stealth, which I would despise.

Yeah, danger sense's description specifically says its better than auspex 1.

I forget, is it classed as a supernatural merit?

[Forge]

Yeah, danger sense's description specifically says its better than auspex 1.

I forget, is it classed as a supernatural merit?

supernatural merit, I will look into what to change it out for then.

I have summed up my choices for specialties too in the second post. I had ones for brawl and strength that overlapped so I changed them, unless having them overlap would give me an advantage?

[Forge]

Ok, changed nature and demeanor too to better fit him. He seems more like a survivor than a curmudgeon to me, to the others he acts more like an architect, like he has plans for building and maintaining a legacy for his clan and allies but while he does dream of a vast underground cathedral a lot of that is a front.

[Daedalus]

If he befriends Lucien he'll probarly help him achieve his dream. If he can set up a workshop in said cathedral.

I mean, he can probarly buy one later. But hey, the more the merrier right?

+he wants to experiment on nosferatu.

[Drakilian]

Would not give you an advantage, no.

[Forge]

Ok so... I think I have everything down and am simply banning myself from doing any of the major changes I have in my head.

What's left that I must do?

[Drakilian]

You must wait for me to review to make sure you haven't made any mistakes while making alterations, and then write out your backstory and expanded backgrounds.

[Drakilian]

You have spent 11 points on talents, and 6 freebie points.

You have spent 10 points on skills and 4 freebie points.

7 freebie points on Disciplines

5 freebie points on backgrounds

7 freebie points on merits.

You have spent 4 freebie points too many, and your skills/talents are incorrectly distributed.

Oh, and you should record your willpower.

[Forge]

You have spent 11 points on talents, and 6 freebie points.

You have spent 10 points on skills and 4 freebie points.

7 freebie points on Disciplines

5 freebie points on backgrounds

7 freebie points on merits.

You have spent 4 freebie points too many, and your skills/talents are incorrectly distributed.

Oh, and you should record your willpower.

Seriously? Ok must have messed up majorly somwhere...

[Forge]

Ok looks like my issue was from having to use freebies to raise above 3 then moving things around.

Have to scrap it and restart the stats, will do it in a while

[Drakilian]

Your attributes are fine, just re-do the abilities.

[Forge]

I see what went wrong, I forgot the 'not above level 3' rule so had moved points from things I didn't want into things I wanted to get them level 4.

This should be more correct now but I also hate his stats so I'll have a think and move them later tonight.

[Drakilian]

You now have 2 freebie points left.

Don't worry about it forge, you'll get exp fast here to increase your stats, just finish with what you have here and then we'll go on. Remember that this is a starter adventure, everyone sucks.

[Forge]

You now have 2 freebie points left.

Don't worry about it forge, you'll get exp fast here to increase your stats, just finish with what you have here and then we'll go on. Remember that this is a starter adventure, everyone sucks.

Oh I don't think he suck, I think he is pretty nice... I just don't like his stats currently, I'm not sure they suit what I pictured him as... But I think it should be fine with a tiny tweet more...

[Forge]

OK! I have used the last two points on Brawl and deleted the extra specialties on the post below to only show which ones he has now.

Made my peace with his stats but changing who I think he is slightly and I like what I have decided on, he is different from my initial concept of him but should be fun to RP.

I filled in all the blank areas I could, should his will be 6 now? I think its 6 so that's what I put with a question mark after it.

All that should be missing now is Sire I think as I have no idea who that might be. I could happily describe/create one but this adventure is a lot more structured with set elders already in place so I figured you who have to choose one from the story or create one that didn't affect anything too badly

Oh and I don't know which city/villages he is near as that depends on the sire I assume since he still resides near his sire (I pictured him residing on the outskirts, but still withing his sires holdings in a cave by a river or stream. Close enough to a city to go there to hunt as his contagiousness would mean people he feeds off get sick and possibly die if they fail too many rolls so he would need a reasonably number of people nearby)

[Daedalus]

Aye his will is 6.

Since your courage is 3, that gived you 3 willpower + the 3 freebies you spent make it 6 

[Drakilian]

Hmm... The characters travel to Constantinople and follow the fourth Crusade in an extra chronicle i'm including (to fill in downtime in the primary chronicles). One of the important chars in Constantinople is Malachite, an elder Nosferatu - he could have sired you. It would mean that you would have a good reason for your char to participate in that set of adventures as well.

[Drakilian]

Oh, and your willpower is your courage rating (so 3)

[Forge]

Ok so sired by him, then where should I have him residing for now or will there be a "You all travel to this place for X reason"

[Drakilian]

He'll be residing in Constantinople, as for where you're residing, find a reason for yourself to currently be living in Transylvania.